Ugur Sahin and his wife Ozlem Tureci, both from Turkey, co-founded the German biotechnology company BioNTech, which developed a vaccine against COVID-19.
On May 5, he spoke to Rudaw's Alla Shaly about the vaccine, its efficacy and how he feels about producing a life-saving vaccine. He also said that it is likely people will need a third shot - or booster- a year after receiving both doses..
Rudaw : Thank you professor Ugur Sahin for your time. First of all, I would like to how you felt when you made the vaccine and saved the lives of thousands of people.
It is a really nice feeling to be able to help. I am a doctor and my wife is a doctor as well, and our research did not only concern itself with fundamental science, but also with the question of how we can bring new medicine to people. I myself am surprised to see that we are in a totally different area than we first intended, because we initially wanted to create cancer medicine. A vaccine, created through our research, has such an impact on humanity. We constantly get messages from people where the grandmother is able to see her grandchildren again, where families are able to reunite, where a son or a daughter is able to visit their mother. These are all personal, wonderful things, and then you can also calculate how many lives have been saved. By now that is statistically possible to see, and that also feels good. On the other hand, what still worries us is that so many have not yet received vaccines and our work is not done yet. It feels good but we can still not grasp it. It is something you notice, but you are so focused, like you are in a really fast car and you can’t lose focus.
It is said that people have to take three doses of the BioNTech vaccine for it to be effective. Is that true?
Our vaccine reaches its maximum effect after 7 days after the second shot and approximately 12 days after the first shot. Then you already have basic vaccination, so the first 12 days after vaccination don’t help. There is almost no immunization. If somebody was vaccinated 2 days ago and gets infected, the vaccine can’t help. 12 days is the minimum, and the maximum effect is 7 days after the second shot, meaning on day 28. Our vaccine has a high effectiveness of 95 percent, which was not only proved in the clinical trial with 40,000 people, but also though real-world data, for example from Israel, where more than 5 million people have been vaccinated. There, we see an effectiveness of over 95 percent, with 96, 97 percent. The vaccine will lessen over time. We now have, for example, data from 6 months after the vaccine, and after 6 months, we don’t have 95 percent anymore, but 91 percent vaccine effectiveness. We see that after 8 months that the antibodies significantly go down. Consequently, we need a third dose to get the immunization back nearly to 100 percent. That means the third dose after 9 months, no later than 12 months, will help. This is called a booster. I think that it is probable that one would need a booster shot every year, or at least every 18 months.
It is important for Muslim-majority countries to know what is in the vaccine. Does it include any animal products?
We have published what is in our vaccine. You can find that online, every individual component. We get asked if there are animal products in our vaccine, not only from the Muslim community, but also from the Jewish community, is it kosher or halal. Every substance is free from animal products. That means there should be no concerns. Our vaccine has the RNA molecule which is produced synthetically with no animal components. We also have fats which are also produced synthetically, plant-based. We have cholesterol which we also acquire from plants and we have fluids…and those are also not of animal origin. So you can say it is a kosher, halal vaccine. But that is only for those who are really strict.
Can pregnant women receive the vaccine? What about children? Have you researched this?
We are doing a clinical study on that [pregnant women receiving the vaccine] as we don’t have the data yet, but there is data from other groups published about our vaccine. There is a very famous medical journal, The New England Journal of Medicine, which examined if our vaccine results in higher rates of side effects on pregnant women, and it seems not to be the case. However, those were late pregnancies, in their last trimester. We also tested on animals and observed that there is no damage done to the embryo. That is the data we currently have. My recommendation is that that pregnant people should talk to their doctors and get advice. It is clear that pregnant people, if infected with Covid, have a considerably harsher process than other people. This means that the risk for pregnant people is high, which means it is reasonable to get vaccinated. However, currently we can’t give a recommendation.
It depends on how you define herd immunity. The first thing we should not forget is that children can also suffer badly from the virus.. It is not always a piece of cake, but we know that children can suffer severe symptoms. Luckily that is rare, but still common enough that children end up in the intensive-care unit. On the other hand, long COVID seems to also affect children. This is why we think it is reasonable to offer vaccines to children because on the one hand, it would strengthen herd immunity, and on the other hand because we also believe there is a positive risk-benefit balance. We don’t have the data yet; the clinical studies for children are still ongoing. We have to wait, and only after we have the data, can we recommend the vaccine [for children].
It was reported in Israel that some people who received the second dose had experienced myocarditis? What do you say about this?
We have seen this information coming from Israel and we do two things. First, we ask for detailed information – also, this is just a media report and it is important that we get detailed information to understand what happened and how the heart problems were documented. These types of symptoms must be documented well and the severity must also be noted. In terms of what we have already done, we went through our database - we get a lot of data since over 200 million people have been vaccinated - and then we look at it. What tends to happen is that national organizations, for example the Paul Ehrlich Institute in Germany or the FDA or the CDC in the USA, also look through the data. We have found no evidence on those growing cases of heart-muscle infections. This is why we can’t confirm anything at the moment, but we’ll keep an eye on it. Then we have to see if what was reported is the truth. Often times it turns out, after some days, that we have to evaluate it differently. We take everything we hear seriously because the most important principle of drug development is that you don’t cause any harm.
Is the vaccine used in Germany the same one used in Iraq and Kurdistan Region? What do you have to say about the removal of the patent?
It is not a solution to give away the patent. There are options, and what we are currently considering is giving away special licenses for really capable manufacturers. You asked the question, I believe, if the vaccine available in Iraq is the same one Europe uses, and that is the most important question. We don’t want to have an inferior vaccine in Africa. Everything must be certified, and that is why we talk to organizations about giving out licenses for certified manufacturers. The main problem is that it will not help now – at the earliest by the end of 2022. To me all these suggestions are where somebody is not informed enough about the topic but just wants to say something. We are delving deep into these topics. Before this, I had a meeting with a representative from GABI where we talked about what we have to do to provide low-income countries with more vaccines. There are many problems to solve, but we are working on it.
I want to really thank all members of the press and journalists for always trying to put out objective information. This is also one of the important and positive things that I noticed especially during the pandemic. There was no sensationalistic journalism, and everyone took their responsibilities seriously and reported in an objective manner. This is really important because that is the only way we can get more people to get vaccinated and have trust. Thank you very much.
Translated by Anis Ari
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