“A main problem is that Germany doesn't know how many Kurds are in Germany. And why? Because we are classified as Turkish, Iranian, Iraqi, and Syrian, but this weakens us because we have a strong base. There's an opportunity for our voice to be heard,” Ferat Kocak, from the Left Party (Die Linke), told Rudaw on June 7.
He noted that if Germany knew its number of Kurdish voters, it would strengthen the Kurds’ voice. “That's why it's important for me that we can change laws so Kurds are recognized as Kurds, and it no longer matters whether they came from Turkey, Iran, Iraq, or Syria. We are Kurds of Kurdistan.”
Another issue pointed out by Kocak was the Christian Democratic Union (CDU) and Social Democratic Party’s (SPD) anti-migration policies.
Most Kurds in the country have fled difficult circumstances and could face persecution upon their return, according to Kocak, who referred to an example of an elderly woman and her daughter.
“We stopped the deportation of two Kurdish women some time ago - an elderly woman and a young girl. They had rebelled against Iran's regime. Both were supposed to be deported to Iran. We had to raise our voices, talk to politicians, bring people to the airport to stop their deportation. What's happening is inhumane,” the lawmaker said.
“This immigration-restrictive policy is inhumane and against humanity,” he stressed.
Germany hosts one of the largest refugee populations worldwide. Tens of thousands of mostly young people leave Iraq and the Kurdistan Region for Europe annually in search of a better life, using smuggling routes. Many hope to settle in Germany.
The following is the transcript of the interview with Ferat Kocak.
Rudaw: What is your and your party's (the Left Party) opinion on all these measures by Germany's new government regarding the tightening of immigration policy? When we see borders being controlled and even deportations happening now. How much do you agree with this, and what can you and your party do?
Ferat Kocak: The CDU and SPD parties are implementing an immigration policy that was emphasized by the AfD during the election campaign: closing borders and deporting people. This also affects Kurds, especially Yazidis who are being deported back to the sites of genocides, or those who have received residence permits are being deported. This immigration-restrictive policy is inhumane and against humanity. I am also Kurdish, Kurds endeavour [for their rights], and I always work for human rights and help people. What can our party do? We are in opposition, we can help people and we can raise our voices to prevent deportations and help those who are in difficult situations.
What specific aspects of the German government's immigration policy are you particularly opposed to?
We are fundamentally opposed to this type of immigration policy. I always say "no human being is illegal." People have reasons for fleeing to Germany, whether it's war, oppression, or hunger. We Kurds ourselves have this experience, so this is a fundamental criticism that demands a different immigration policy. Particularly regarding border closures - as we know, Europe was founded with the intention that borders be open and people come together. This regression is against European law. Also, the manner of deportations - when people are arrested for deportation, women and children and innocent people and those who left to achieve a better life. We want to prevent this. In my opinion, particularly arrest for deportation is wrong. Those who don't have the right to stay should be deported according to law, but I always say we need to change the law. There are many reasons why people flee, but we must also look at how Germany exports weapons that end up in the hands of ISIS, and with those weapons Yazidis and Kurds are killed. Therefore, we share responsibility for why these people flee. That's why we need to connect many points. Germany says we don't have money - Germany is one of the richest countries in the world, but the wealth is distributed incorrectly. We just need to collect taxes from the wealthy so there's money for cities, schools, hospitals, civil servants, and people. Then people will also be calmer. What CDU and SPD are doing is trying to win the votes of AfD's extremists. This policy is fundamentally wrong.
The government wants to add countries to its list of safe countries without the parliament’s supreme council. How do you evaluate this democratically?
It is anti-democratic. There are organizations to protect democracy in Germany. Fundamentally, the federal government is violating the principles of democracy. Let's use us Kurds as an example: if Turkey is a safe country and Kurdish political activists, those who were active against racism, are deported there, they will face imprisonment and persecution there. This is against humanity. We stopped the deportation of two Kurdish women some time ago - an elderly woman and a young girl. They had rebelled against Iran's regime. Both were supposed to be deported to Iran. We had to raise our voices, talk to politicians, and bring people to the airport to stop their deportation. What's happening is inhumane. That's why we need to raise our voices in politics, in opposition, and organize ourselves in civil society to save those who face deportation.
You mentioned deportation. The new cabinet wants to abolish the automatic provision of lawyers for those facing deportation orders. How much impact will this have on justice, the process, and asylum seekers' rights? How can you prevent this process?
The problem here is that 50 percent of those arrested for deportation are there "illegally" - that's what the courts say, not me. If they don't have legal counsel, they cannot save themselves from this situation in any way. We cannot participate in this. Those who face this situation need to receive legal counsel.
Are many Kurds being deported?
In my team, I have four Kurds with me.
Do they contact you? How do you help them?
We have an expert and advisor in immigration policy. We work with lawyers and refugee councils so people receive direct help. What we can do as parliamentarians is raise public awareness. We know where the relevant contact points are to provide assistance. Currently our focus is on Berlin. I'm an expert here because I'm a member of the state parliament and we need to know how it is in other states. If there's a case in Berlin, I can definitely help.
How good and important is it to have Kurds in the federal parliament? We currently have seven lawmakers who seriously want to work on Kurdish issues.
Within the Left Party (Die Linke) we are five people, one from the Green Party and one from the Social Democrats. I demand that we need more Kurds in the German parliament, also within the CDU. It's important to bring our issues into all parties. A main problem is that Germany doesn't know how many Kurds are in Germany. And why? Because we are classified as Turkish, Iranian, Iraqi, and Syrian, but this weakens us because we have a strong base. There's an opportunity for our voice to be heard. If Germany knew how many votes we have, then we could raise our voice even louder. That's why it's important for me that we can change laws so Kurds are recognized as Kurds, and it no longer matters whether they came from Turkey, Iran, Iraq, or Syria. We are Kurds of Kurdistan.
Do you have a plan for this? Can you say how you'll implement it?
Absolutely, this is one of my projects. For example, one can ask about their mother tongue. If the mother tongue is Kurdish, you're recognized as Kurdish, regardless of where you came from. This could be a way. I'm in dialogue with various Kurdish organizations to move forward and know how many Kurds live in Germany.
Nearly one million?
Those are all estimates. I predict the number is even higher. Many Kurds don't say they're Kurdish.
Then you can better advocate for your rights in parliament?
Yes.
Let's come to Merz's cabinet's immigration policy. He insists on fundamental changes in immigration policy, despite the Berlin court's decision that rejecting immigrants at the border is illegal. What is your stance on this?
Interior Minister [Alexander] Dobrindt, who was previously transport minister, had already violated European Union laws and had to pay nearly 300 million euros to a company, a toll collection company, and he's violating EU laws again. I asked him in the federal parliament before the court decision: if you violate EU laws again, will you resign? He didn't answer. It's very simple - we have a law, and if a government doesn't abide by it, how can people abide by it? On the other hand, one must also look at the fact that apart from asylum law, which was founded on the basis of the Holocaust, the killing of Romanians and Jews and World War II, when you tighten asylum law, you're being disrespectful to your own history and remembrance culture and don't understand that this is a lesson from a war that Germany started and millions of people were killed.
Germany wants to stop family reunification. What changes does the new Germany want to make? [Editor’s note: The German government suspended family reunification on June 27.]
Germany wants to do many things, but what's important is what meaningful things it wants to do, because many things are meaningless, we need to know this. Providing citizenship is a main thing for people to become part of society and participate. [Suspension of] family reunification is a disaster because the person who flees from war and comes here leaves their family behind. In my opinion, their family also in danger.
Doesn’t tightening of this law harm Germany's economy, since Germany needs a workforce, and at the same time these measures scare away people who wouldn't come to Germany?
Yes, from another perspective, that person cannot adapt. That's the goal - they want to scare those people so they don't come, and when they do come, they return quickly. Yes, I studied economics, but the issue of the workforce is not left-wing policy. If we look at it from this perspective, Germany doesn't just need a workforce, but has a shortage of skilled workforce. Germany also needs young people because the pension and health systems are built on solidarity. Now there are few people paying taxes for the pension and health systems to work. We see everything falling apart. Therefore, Germany needs immigrants. Every society is built and changes through immigration. Immigration is part of global society, and every society was built from immigration. In my opinion, it's fundamentally wrong when immigration is seen as something bad. The economy also needs it, it's very clear. That's why in my opinion this is deadly. Some time ago, a 17-year-old young man was supposed to be deported. He had just started studying to be a civil servant. Why?
What should be done to satisfy Germans in a way that they do not vote for the AfD while foreigners living here do not fear any threats?
People aren't worried about immigration policy. This is a topic that AfD, CDU, and now SPD create. People are generally worried because they can't pay their house rent and the health system doesn't work, because schools don't work, because of rising living costs and because wages don't increase. If people's situation is good, then they don't make other people the cause of miseries. What Germany is doing now is dividing society. This is demagogy. You have other problems, but they say we know what the problem is - the problem is foreigners. But it's not like that. Foreigners are not the problem. I wrote my diploma thesis on labor migration, particularly from Turkey, then there was the new migration from Poland and I compared them, because people said "Poles are coming and taking our jobs." They were cheap labor. I proved with my diploma thesis that migration in the long term has good benefits for the state, not only something else.
As you know, a significant number from all four parts of Kurdistan come to Germany. Do you think these measures have a particularly greater impact on the cases of Kurdish immigrants? For example,if Turkey is treated as a safe country, what would be the fate of Kurds hailing from the country but living here?
Definitely [it will impact Kurds], because Kurds from Iran, Iraq, Syria - let's use the right words - from the west, east, and south are deported to Turkey, and Kurds in Turkey face racism again. It doesn't matter how much the peace process is discussed, racism is very evident there. They're also deported from there because Turkey has no problem deporting those who started the "Woman, Life, Freedom" revolution in Iran back there to be killed.
This is an important point. Yesterday I spoke with several faction leaders in parliament - CDU, SPD, Greens, and the Left. Some said Syrians might also be deported soon. Well, how will they deport them? Because so far there's no deportation agreement between Syria and Germany, and there's none between Iraq and Germany either.
Until there's an agreement, they can be deported to Turkey.
And what happens?
Turkey also deports them to other countries, but that's not Germany's concern.
Does this happen often?
Many in Berlin.
Really? Do you have statistics?
I don't have statistics at hand, but the number of deportations to Turkey from Berlin is at the highest level.
From Berlin?
From Berlin. I don't know about Germany, but I know about Berlin.
Are Kurds being deported?
A large number of Kurds are included. The bad thing is that Yazidis are also included who are being deported. They're being deported to the place they were saved from genocide. Germany has also recognized the Yazidi genocide. How can you deport these people to that place when you know ISIS…
This doesn't fit.
Right, those who committed genocide are becoming strong again. ISIS is also active in Germany. A few days ago there was an attack in Bielefeld, that was also an ISIS terrorist attack. And you're returning Yazidis to that place despite recognizing the genocide. This is not humane.
Now perhaps those people who should leave Germany might also have their right to a lawyer taken away, which means those Kurds who don't have the right to stay are also included. No one can help them. Can you help them?
First of all, I raise my voice for people, for all those who see injustice, because we Kurds always fight against injustice. Then we make demands and attack the legal situation so Germany understands it can't continue this way. Most importantly, people outside should understand, because we have another election in four years, and it's important for people in Germany to change this situation.
Yesterday an official told me this government's policy toward immigrants will become much harsher. Can't some decisions be prevented?
SPD and CDU started their election campaign by constantly talking about immigration. The Left Party was the only party that said: You're using demagogic tactics. Immigration is not a problem in Germany. You don't want to talk about the rich getting richer, that there's no money for house rent and no money for building new apartments, and people can't find housing. I've been looking for a house for myself for ten years. Even though I'm a parliament member, I can't find a house for myself. I'm 46 years old and live with my parents. My Kurdish mother is happy about this because she can cook for me. But these are the main problems that need to be solved. If you don't solve these problems, you'll always have dissatisfaction. When there is dissatisfaction, you can say foreigners are the cause. Then what happens? Then refugee camps are burned, people are killed, immigrants are killed. Nazis want to kill us. I myself, with my parents, survived a fire attack by two Nazis. One of them was a member of the AfD district leadership in Neukolln. This situation gets worse. That's why it's important to tell people, and I see it as my duty to make public opinion understand that immigration, immigrants, foreigners, Kurds are not the cause of people's illnesses, but it's wrong policy.
Well, what can the Left Party do against these decisions? The government wants to continue.
The government has a majority and decides on laws. What an opposition does is identify wounds and alert public opinion, encourage people on the streets to make changes from the streets. A government announces plan "A" to the people, but then implements plan "B" and then people punish them in the next election. If we can encourage people en masse on the streets, that's good policy. If the government changes this policy, it means the Left Party is on the right path.
What are your plans and projects in parliament in the future? You've been a federal parliament member for more than four weeks. What's your most important project you want to work on?
I'm a member of the Interior Committee and I'm the spokesperson against fascism and racism there. One of my most important projects is that I want to make a trip to Kurdistan [Region] and get to know the systems there, help with political work and understand it. I've never been to the east [western Iraq], west [northeast Syria], and south [Kurdistan Region]. I want to talk with political officials to strengthen Kurdish unity. As I said, for me there are Kurds of Kurdistan, not from Turkey, Syria, Iran, or Iraq.
You mentioned something important earlier and said we Kurds are born with politics, and the Kurdish diaspora in Germany is very large. In your opinion, do Kurds have a good lobby in Germany, and what should Kurds do now? What do you tell them?
In my opinion, we have a strong lobby. What we need to do is Kurds need to grow together more and create a common social feeling. I believe this feeling exists not only here but also in the homeland, and there are many efforts there too. I'm optimistic that Kurdish unity will be created and they'll have better dialogue among themselves here too. The most important thing for me is that the young people born here preserve their [Kurdish] identity well, but at the same time be active together for our common rights. To do this, they should also participate in parties. It doesn't have to be only the Left Party. I'd also be happy if more Kurds join the Left Party and generally all parties and defend our rights.
Why the Left Party?
Because the Left Party is the only party that stands with people who work hard and demand change. Because we live in a system that exploits humans, animals, and nature. Also, weapons are exported to countries that start wars and kill Kurds. Weapons are continuously exported from Germany to Turkey. With these weapons Kurds are also killed and Kurdish members are removed from their positions. That exported weapon is part of a system. The Left Party is the only party that rejects this. It demands a system where the economy serves people, not people working for the economy.
How do you and your party evaluate the peace process in Turkey?
We support the peace process. Peace is important to me. Kurds deserve to finally have peace. But we shouldn't forget that they've been deceived many times in history, so they must do this carefully and protect themselves. Yes, with a critical eye. I'm happy if there's a peace process and we must advance that peace process, but we shouldn't trust those who have been killing and beheading us for years.
Well, what's your relationship with other Kurdish parliamentarians from other parties?
I do that work. I'm in contact with the Kurdish parliamentarian from the Green Party, Kassem [Taher]. I hope to also meet the SPD parliamentarian. Of course, we need to be united.