He was the preacher and main imam of Mosul’s famous al-Nuri mosque until the day the ISIS leader showed up and asked him to step aside. Imam Hamudi Omar al-Hilali was suddenly asked on that Friday in June 2014 by ISIS militants that the group had someone to deliver the sermon and only after the man walked up to the pulpit did he realize it was Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi, who used the moment to declare the Islamic caliphate.
Al-Hilali says, in this special interview with Rudaw, that the people of Mosul welcomed ISIS because they had been oppressed and were thirsty for change and someone who could save them from the central state. But soon enough, he says, they realized ISIS was not a true caliphate and their lives were filled with terror especially after they saw beheading scenes and the harsh treatment the militants visited on dissenters.
Rudaw: You a preacher at the al-Nuri mosque when ISIS arrived. What do you remember of the situation that day?
Al-Hilali: There was a semi-curfew on the first Friday. There was no movement, but war. That is why there was even no sermon that Friday. But we resumed sermons the following Friday.
How was ISIS treatment of people in the beginning?
Their treatment was what people wanted to see. But with the passage of time it became clear their actions were different from their words.
What was the difference between the day al-Baghdadi came to the al-Nuri mosque and the previous six years you had been preaching there?
They declared the caliphate in the mosque nearly a month after they came to the area. People were thirsty for change at the time. Hence, they felt peace and security, enthusiastically welcoming it. Al-Baghdadi only declared the caliphate in his speech, showing the
world that a caliphate was declared there and its supporters were there, so people were aware he had become a caliph and so that people pledge allegiance to him. But in our sermons we were speaking about peoples’ daily lives, what they wanted and needed.
Who were the people praying behind the caliph?
I was there that day. People had come there to pray as usual. When the timing of prayer neared, somebody came and said that Sheikh Ibrahim Awad will be delivering a speech. People then realized it was the caliph. I was there in the mosque, but they came
and said they had their own preacher that day. They didn’t say who their preacher was, and I didn’t ask. I realized who the preacher was when the prayer time arrived.
They directly entered the mosque and opened all the doors. They even broke the locks on closed doors, saying they had their own preacher. They didn’t say anything in advance. They revealed the name of the preacher just before the sermon was delivered.
Were people free to come or not to come to the mosque that day?
It was business as usual, only that they frisked people and asked them to switch off their cell phones, that was it.
Did you see Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi closely? Did you speak to him?
No, he entered and delivered the sermon and left immediately. Many people gathered around him when he left, saying hi to him, kissing and praying for him. A big crowd gathered there. He was surrounded by many armed guards, which is why I couldn’t get close to him.
How was peoples’ reaction after he declared a caliphate?
As I said, people were dreaming of change because of the immense pressure they were under. That is why people were hoping that somebody would come and liberate them. Initially, many people accepted it and took it as good news. People were dreaming of an Islamic caliphate, but on the right path.
How did people’s opinion change after the circulation of videos in which they behead people?
This was the start of people fearing the Islamic state. People started to doubt the Islamic state when they started to kill people. This
showed that words were different from actions. People then started to review their thinking. The treatment of most ISIS militants of people including children and women was very strict. They were in no way soft.
Did you feel that he was the caliph of all Muslims?
I didn’t really feel like it was a caliphate because the treatment of their members was strict even among themselves. And this was so even before the declaration of the caliphate. They were killing members who were violating (their rules) or wanting to leave them. This meant there was something secret going on there.
Who was deciding the topic of Friday sermons? Were you free to preach whatever you wanted?
I didn’t remain as preacher at the time. However, I was aware that the sermons were scripted and sent in advance, and they were all
the same. And all the imams were preaching the same sermons. I don’t think anybody dared to change the sermon or remove parts of it. This was punishable.
What made al-Baghdadi attract all these followers?
He wasn’t special. The propaganda circulated by the social networking sites was the contributing factor. This made people long for the caliphate, Islam and the security. In addition, religious awareness was weak which helped al-Baghdadi draw people to him in every way.
Their thinking was the same and they had pledged allegiance to the organization. We had no problems. It was just that some people were concerned that the organization might not leave them alone and interfere in certain things, which they finally did.
Why did ISIS leave blowing up the al-Nuri mosque to their final days in Mosul?
The al-Nuri mosque is one of the symbols of the city of Mosul. Moreover, Mosul was named after the al-Hadba minaret. They call it the Mosul of al-Hadba. They declared the caliphate from there, which they defended until their last breath. They blew up the mosque
after the security forces got near to them and they felt disillusioned. They blew up the mosque because they didn’t want anyone other than themselves to be in the place where they declared the caliphate. It was a sacred place to some of their members. It was an unpleasant incident. We are saddened by the blowing up of the minaret. Although the minaret wasn’t more sacred than the blood of ordinary citizens, martyrs and security forces, it was a historic archeological site. Demolishing a landmark dating back to more than 800 years is a problem and heart-breaking. It really made me sad because the al-Hadba became part of history. It is painful to speak about it. We didn’t want that to happen.
How did you leave the mosque? Did you leave voluntarily?
They told me I shouldn’t preach the day after the speech was delivered. I was told that I could go and file a complaint at the Complaints Office if I felt that this was unfair, saying that I was aware that nearly 90 percent of the imams were laid off for obvious reasons.
How did you escape the ISIS rule?
I fled Mosul’s right bank to the left bank on March 13 this year after the operation by security forces was launched. It was night time.
We fled at 3 am. People were fleeing too, doing so at times where there were no snipers or at times the army was making way for people to flee at night. We thought we could reach the peaceful areas held by the army.
ISIS is close to be defeated from a military standpoint. When do you think it will finish ideologically?
The brainwashing which many young people were subjected to, will surely take time and need hard work to go away. It also needs honest intentions. There will be change hopefully soon if there is honest intention.
Do you think there will be retaliation against people who helped ISIS?
We hope there won’t be retaliations. There are people who have lost their sons or father, or have their homes destroyed, or were expelled. These people should have something to say. But we hope things don’t reach a level which our enemies might want to see.
What do you think should be done to ensure groups like ISIS don’t emerge in Mosul again?
There won’t be any armed groups if the government improves its policy toward the people. We will, however, go back to the beginning of what we witnessed (in Mosul) if they resume putting pressure on people and start arresting people indiscriminately again.
Al-Hilali says, in this special interview with Rudaw, that the people of Mosul welcomed ISIS because they had been oppressed and were thirsty for change and someone who could save them from the central state. But soon enough, he says, they realized ISIS was not a true caliphate and their lives were filled with terror especially after they saw beheading scenes and the harsh treatment the militants visited on dissenters.
Rudaw: You a preacher at the al-Nuri mosque when ISIS arrived. What do you remember of the situation that day?
Al-Hilali: There was a semi-curfew on the first Friday. There was no movement, but war. That is why there was even no sermon that Friday. But we resumed sermons the following Friday.
How was ISIS treatment of people in the beginning?
Their treatment was what people wanted to see. But with the passage of time it became clear their actions were different from their words.
What was the difference between the day al-Baghdadi came to the al-Nuri mosque and the previous six years you had been preaching there?
They declared the caliphate in the mosque nearly a month after they came to the area. People were thirsty for change at the time. Hence, they felt peace and security, enthusiastically welcoming it. Al-Baghdadi only declared the caliphate in his speech, showing the
Many people gathered around him when he left, saying hi to him, kissing and praying for him. 
Who were the people praying behind the caliph?
I was there that day. People had come there to pray as usual. When the timing of prayer neared, somebody came and said that Sheikh Ibrahim Awad will be delivering a speech. People then realized it was the caliph. I was there in the mosque, but they came
I was aware that the sermons were scripted and sent in advance, and they were all the same.
They directly entered the mosque and opened all the doors. They even broke the locks on closed doors, saying they had their own preacher. They didn’t say anything in advance. They revealed the name of the preacher just before the sermon was delivered.
Were people free to come or not to come to the mosque that day?
It was business as usual, only that they frisked people and asked them to switch off their cell phones, that was it.
Did you see Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi closely? Did you speak to him?
No, he entered and delivered the sermon and left immediately. Many people gathered around him when he left, saying hi to him, kissing and praying for him. A big crowd gathered there. He was surrounded by many armed guards, which is why I couldn’t get close to him.
How was peoples’ reaction after he declared a caliphate?
As I said, people were dreaming of change because of the immense pressure they were under. That is why people were hoping that somebody would come and liberate them. Initially, many people accepted it and took it as good news. People were dreaming of an Islamic caliphate, but on the right path.
How did people’s opinion change after the circulation of videos in which they behead people?
This was the start of people fearing the Islamic state. People started to doubt the Islamic state when they started to kill people. This
He wasn’t special. The propaganda circulated by the social networking sites was the contributing factor.
Did you feel that he was the caliph of all Muslims?
I didn’t really feel like it was a caliphate because the treatment of their members was strict even among themselves. And this was so even before the declaration of the caliphate. They were killing members who were violating (their rules) or wanting to leave them. This meant there was something secret going on there.
Who was deciding the topic of Friday sermons? Were you free to preach whatever you wanted?
I didn’t remain as preacher at the time. However, I was aware that the sermons were scripted and sent in advance, and they were all
The brainwashing which many young people were subjected to, will surely take time and need hard work to go away.
What made al-Baghdadi attract all these followers?
He wasn’t special. The propaganda circulated by the social networking sites was the contributing factor. This made people long for the caliphate, Islam and the security. In addition, religious awareness was weak which helped al-Baghdadi draw people to him in every way.
Their thinking was the same and they had pledged allegiance to the organization. We had no problems. It was just that some people were concerned that the organization might not leave them alone and interfere in certain things, which they finally did.
Why did ISIS leave blowing up the al-Nuri mosque to their final days in Mosul?
The al-Nuri mosque is one of the symbols of the city of Mosul. Moreover, Mosul was named after the al-Hadba minaret. They call it the Mosul of al-Hadba. They declared the caliphate from there, which they defended until their last breath. They blew up the mosque
I fled Mosul’s right bank to the left bank on March 13 this year after the operation by security forces was launched.
How did you leave the mosque? Did you leave voluntarily?
They told me I shouldn’t preach the day after the speech was delivered. I was told that I could go and file a complaint at the Complaints Office if I felt that this was unfair, saying that I was aware that nearly 90 percent of the imams were laid off for obvious reasons.
How did you escape the ISIS rule?
I fled Mosul’s right bank to the left bank on March 13 this year after the operation by security forces was launched. It was night time.
There won’t be any armed groups if the government improves its policy toward the people.
ISIS is close to be defeated from a military standpoint. When do you think it will finish ideologically?
The brainwashing which many young people were subjected to, will surely take time and need hard work to go away. It also needs honest intentions. There will be change hopefully soon if there is honest intention.
Do you think there will be retaliation against people who helped ISIS?
We hope there won’t be retaliations. There are people who have lost their sons or father, or have their homes destroyed, or were expelled. These people should have something to say. But we hope things don’t reach a level which our enemies might want to see.
What do you think should be done to ensure groups like ISIS don’t emerge in Mosul again?
There won’t be any armed groups if the government improves its policy toward the people. We will, however, go back to the beginning of what we witnessed (in Mosul) if they resume putting pressure on people and start arresting people indiscriminately again.
Comments
Rudaw moderates all comments submitted on our website. We welcome comments which are relevant to the article and encourage further discussion about the issues that matter to you. We also welcome constructive criticism about Rudaw.
To be approved for publication, however, your comments must meet our community guidelines.
We will not tolerate the following: profanity, threats, personal attacks, vulgarity, abuse (such as sexism, racism, homophobia or xenophobia), or commercial or personal promotion.
Comments that do not meet our guidelines will be rejected. Comments are not edited – they are either approved or rejected.
Post a comment