Iraq has changed, says veteran Kurdish politician Hoshyar Zebari after the disputed May 12 parliamentary elections that did not give a strong mandate to any single candidate.
“In past elections, big entities were victorious. This is no longer the case,” Zebari said in an interview.
Shiites are divided, as are Sunnis and Kurds to a lesser extent. So if Kurds can unite and go to Baghdad with one voice, they will be stronger, he argued. Parties will have to work together.
Zebari, a member of the Kurdistan Democratic Party (KDP), was a senior figure in every government of Iraq post-Saddam Hussein, until he was ousted from his post in 2016.
He served as minister of foreign affairs from 2003 to 2014 and minister of finance from 2014 to 2016.
He was removed from the finance post by a vote of no-confidence in the parliament a month after the defense minister was sacked in the same manner amid public protests against corruption led by Muqtada al-Sadr.
Rudaw: Why are the Kurds going back to Baghdad?
Hoshyar Zebari: The Kurds are going back to Baghdad because their rights are determined in the Iraqi constitution, although not all their rights have been given. This was one of the main reasons the Kurds held a referendum. The integrity of Iraq depends on the implementation of the constitution. Then the whole world called on all the parties to commit to the constitution. We have many rights in Baghdad which we have to try to achieve. We will be in a strong negotiation position in Baghdad if we are united. We still have time. The result of the recent election showed who the main party is. Even Iraqis have admitted this, and they know who to speak with on matters of negotiation with the Kurds.
Do you still hope that the constitution will be implemented?
The constitution should be implemented because all parties have achievements at stake and have made concessions in order to reach an agreement on this social bond. The constitution does not appeal to every party 100 percent, yet still voted for it and accepted it as an umbrella. We have many rights that rely on the implementation of the constitution. We have complained to Baghdad as to why the
Kurdish share of the budget is constantly negotiated, whereas this right should be given automatically. Why is this so while a general census has not been done in Iraq? This time, it is different. In past elections, big entities were victorious. This is no longer the case. The Shiites have now split into five groups. The Sunnis and Kurds have divided too, although we are relatively better than them in this. The PUK and we are close to each other and could form a good entity.
Will you form one faction or an alliance?
We have begun the process and are both convinced that we should work together and go to Baghdad united as one delegation and reach an agreement on a joint agenda.
Will you form a Kurdistan alliance?
It might not necessarily have the previous formula. It might be different this time.
Will you go to Baghdad as one faction?
We think it is good and have asked for it.
Who have you asked for it?
We have asked for it. The KDP took the initiative and asked for Kurdish elections to be held before Iraq’s. President Barzani, the prime minister and KDP leadership have several times called on the Kurds to head to Baghdad united.
Is it only the PUK who have responded to this KDP call?
So far the PUK is more responsive to the idea. They think it is good to go to Baghdad together. We made this decision in our last
meeting. We formed a committee to write a joint agenda.
Have you officially called on other parties to join you on this joint front?
Yes, we have told them, but they are not interested. They are waiting for the vote recount, which is about to finish. I don’t know what their response will be later.
You said the Shiites have divided into five groups. Are you setting your agenda on the basis of these divisions or other things?
Situations have changed. We faced some embargoes following the events of October 16 – economic embargo, air blockade, and the closure of neighboring countries’ border gates. We were in a bad state. But all these embargoes have now been lifted. The political embargo has been lifted too and airports have now reopened. Relations with Baghdad have improved as well. The budget comes on time now. Iraq is facing the crisis of forming the government, which might take up to the end of this year. That is why we think it is better for the people of Kurdistan to have the election held on September 30.
Sunni and Shiite Arabs opposed the referendum. They are however divided now. Do you think they will unite in the future against you?
This is politics. They might reunite. They passed 14 parliamentary decisions against us in one day. Why the referendum? People and the world know what this nation wants. It was held and its implications were heavy on us. But we have been able to get past these heavy implications, credit to the wisdom and leadership of the government. They are united when it comes to rights of the Kurds. But we have people among them. Some of them are approachable.
Some in Baghdad had poor relations with Kurds before and after the referendum was held.
We know the people who are against us and people who supported the idea of finding a solution and prevent bloodshed. We will never forget that.
You are currently dealing with Abadi who fought you and Maliki who cut the budget.
We as the KDP don’t have a veto or red line over any party.
Even Nouri al-Maliki?
Even Nouri al-Maliki. We negotiate with them. Our delegations go and meet with him. His delegation comes and visits us too. The same with Abadi as well. The process of forming a government is not easy. It might take time. The problem is that all parties need each other. No single party can unilaterally form the government.
The Kurds have often formed the government with parties who have later taken stances against them.
This time, we and other parties should learn from the past. We had good intentions. We gave up on many of our rights many times for the sake of Iraq’s integrity and Kurdish unity. This time, the position of our leadership is to view our rights differently.
How would you ensure peoples’ rights are given and mistakes of the past are not repeated?
If we are not part of the decision making process in Baghdad, we cannot achieve our rights. That is why we should have a presence in
Baghdad. It is important to have a government recognizing your rights, but you still need to have people over there to pursue those rights, whether they be in the parliament or in the government. There is no balance in most ministries.
Will you be using the referendum as a trump card in your negotiations?
The referendum was a historic event. It was an earthquake, as one described it. The message still exists. It is up to the Kurdish leadership how to use it.
Can you use it?
I don’t know about this. This is an important decision to take. In an interview with you, I said the referendum doesn’t mean we are going to declare a Kurdish state tomorrow.
How long will you remain silent in the face of Kurdish rights being violated by Baghdad?
This is a chance for all the parties to revise themselves. We have to revise ourselves as well. They too have reached a conviction that they cannot destroy the Kurdistan Region. The resilience of the Kurdish nation proved that they can confront times of crisis regardless of whether they are politically divided.
You often have disagreements with the PUK over positions of power, namely the post of the president of the republic. The position of KRG president has now been frozen and the KDP is said to want to take the position of the Iraqi president. What do you want?
There currently are protests demanding an end to the Dawa party’s rule. This is one of the main reasons behind the protests. In regard to the Kurdistan Region, these positions are negotiable and do not belong to any particular party. In the past, there was an agreement between the KDP and the PUK over how these positions should be distributed. But this agreement is no longer practically valid. The position of the president of the Region no longer exists. We haven’t yet discussed these positions with the PUK. We are currently talking together to form a joint agenda in order to go to Baghdad together. We have to settle these positions among ourselves.
As far as I know, you have been asked from inside and outside the country to become the president of the republic. Is this true?
We are Peshmerga and KDP cadres. We follow the decision made by President [Masoud] Barzani. This is discussed often. But this is not a decision I can take. We will do what the leadership thinks is good.
It is true the decision will be made by the KDP, but have you prepared yourself for the position?
We were Peshmerga. I was an active and effective minister in Baghdad. I was busy doing big things. The president asked in a telephone conversation that I had to visit Muqtada al-Sadr tomorrow to withdraw confidence from the prime minister. I do it. This is how we are.
The suspension of the Kurdistan Region’s presidential law brought the KDP and Gorran close to each other. Do you have anything else in common other than this?
The project was presented by Gorran and the KDP, but mainly by Gorran. This resolved part of the problem. The Kurdistan
parliamentary election is likely to be held.
Will the Kurdistan parliamentary election be held on time?
We are determined on this and have told the PUK and other parties that this election should not be delayed because the Kurds will have a lot to lose otherwise.
There are suggestions the election may be delayed.
There are no such suggestions so far. Technical preparations continue to be made. We have made much preparation. The list of our candidates is nearly finished. We have finished our election manifesto. The commission has also done much preparation. The timing is good. We as the Kurds if we can hold the election on time, while there were many problems with Iraqi election, the world would appreciate the value of the Kurds more.
Will the election be held for sure?
It is 100 percent likely to be held. We will try to hold it on time.
Will the Kurdistan parliamentary election be held if the formation of the Iraqi government is delayed?
Some argue the holding of the election might lead to disagreements and complications while we are busy with the formation of the Iraqi government. I don’t support this position. I believe the formation of the Iraqi government will be delayed. If we hold the election on September 30, it will be the most important election for the Kurdistan Region.
“In past elections, big entities were victorious. This is no longer the case,” Zebari said in an interview.
Shiites are divided, as are Sunnis and Kurds to a lesser extent. So if Kurds can unite and go to Baghdad with one voice, they will be stronger, he argued. Parties will have to work together.
Zebari, a member of the Kurdistan Democratic Party (KDP), was a senior figure in every government of Iraq post-Saddam Hussein, until he was ousted from his post in 2016.
He served as minister of foreign affairs from 2003 to 2014 and minister of finance from 2014 to 2016.
He was removed from the finance post by a vote of no-confidence in the parliament a month after the defense minister was sacked in the same manner amid public protests against corruption led by Muqtada al-Sadr.
Rudaw: Why are the Kurds going back to Baghdad?
Hoshyar Zebari: The Kurds are going back to Baghdad because their rights are determined in the Iraqi constitution, although not all their rights have been given. This was one of the main reasons the Kurds held a referendum. The integrity of Iraq depends on the implementation of the constitution. Then the whole world called on all the parties to commit to the constitution. We have many rights in Baghdad which we have to try to achieve. We will be in a strong negotiation position in Baghdad if we are united. We still have time. The result of the recent election showed who the main party is. Even Iraqis have admitted this, and they know who to speak with on matters of negotiation with the Kurds.
Do you still hope that the constitution will be implemented?
The constitution should be implemented because all parties have achievements at stake and have made concessions in order to reach an agreement on this social bond. The constitution does not appeal to every party 100 percent, yet still voted for it and accepted it as an umbrella. We have many rights that rely on the implementation of the constitution. We have complained to Baghdad as to why the
In past elections, big entities were victorious. This is no longer the case 
Will you form one faction or an alliance?
We have begun the process and are both convinced that we should work together and go to Baghdad united as one delegation and reach an agreement on a joint agenda.
Will you form a Kurdistan alliance?
It might not necessarily have the previous formula. It might be different this time.
Will you go to Baghdad as one faction?
We think it is good and have asked for it.
Who have you asked for it?
We have asked for it. The KDP took the initiative and asked for Kurdish elections to be held before Iraq’s. President Barzani, the prime minister and KDP leadership have several times called on the Kurds to head to Baghdad united.
Is it only the PUK who have responded to this KDP call?
So far the PUK is more responsive to the idea. They think it is good to go to Baghdad together. We made this decision in our last
All parties need each other. No single party can unilaterally form the government
Have you officially called on other parties to join you on this joint front?
Yes, we have told them, but they are not interested. They are waiting for the vote recount, which is about to finish. I don’t know what their response will be later.
You said the Shiites have divided into five groups. Are you setting your agenda on the basis of these divisions or other things?
Situations have changed. We faced some embargoes following the events of October 16 – economic embargo, air blockade, and the closure of neighboring countries’ border gates. We were in a bad state. But all these embargoes have now been lifted. The political embargo has been lifted too and airports have now reopened. Relations with Baghdad have improved as well. The budget comes on time now. Iraq is facing the crisis of forming the government, which might take up to the end of this year. That is why we think it is better for the people of Kurdistan to have the election held on September 30.
Sunni and Shiite Arabs opposed the referendum. They are however divided now. Do you think they will unite in the future against you?
This is politics. They might reunite. They passed 14 parliamentary decisions against us in one day. Why the referendum? People and the world know what this nation wants. It was held and its implications were heavy on us. But we have been able to get past these heavy implications, credit to the wisdom and leadership of the government. They are united when it comes to rights of the Kurds. But we have people among them. Some of them are approachable.
Some in Baghdad had poor relations with Kurds before and after the referendum was held.
We know the people who are against us and people who supported the idea of finding a solution and prevent bloodshed. We will never forget that.
You are currently dealing with Abadi who fought you and Maliki who cut the budget.
We as the KDP don’t have a veto or red line over any party.
Even Nouri al-Maliki?
Even Nouri al-Maliki. We negotiate with them. Our delegations go and meet with him. His delegation comes and visits us too. The same with Abadi as well. The process of forming a government is not easy. It might take time. The problem is that all parties need each other. No single party can unilaterally form the government.
The Kurds have often formed the government with parties who have later taken stances against them.
This time, we and other parties should learn from the past. We had good intentions. We gave up on many of our rights many times for the sake of Iraq’s integrity and Kurdish unity. This time, the position of our leadership is to view our rights differently.
How would you ensure peoples’ rights are given and mistakes of the past are not repeated?
If we are not part of the decision making process in Baghdad, we cannot achieve our rights. That is why we should have a presence in
The position of the president of the Region no longer exists
Will you be using the referendum as a trump card in your negotiations?
The referendum was a historic event. It was an earthquake, as one described it. The message still exists. It is up to the Kurdish leadership how to use it.
Can you use it?
I don’t know about this. This is an important decision to take. In an interview with you, I said the referendum doesn’t mean we are going to declare a Kurdish state tomorrow.
How long will you remain silent in the face of Kurdish rights being violated by Baghdad?
This is a chance for all the parties to revise themselves. We have to revise ourselves as well. They too have reached a conviction that they cannot destroy the Kurdistan Region. The resilience of the Kurdish nation proved that they can confront times of crisis regardless of whether they are politically divided.
You often have disagreements with the PUK over positions of power, namely the post of the president of the republic. The position of KRG president has now been frozen and the KDP is said to want to take the position of the Iraqi president. What do you want?
There currently are protests demanding an end to the Dawa party’s rule. This is one of the main reasons behind the protests. In regard to the Kurdistan Region, these positions are negotiable and do not belong to any particular party. In the past, there was an agreement between the KDP and the PUK over how these positions should be distributed. But this agreement is no longer practically valid. The position of the president of the Region no longer exists. We haven’t yet discussed these positions with the PUK. We are currently talking together to form a joint agenda in order to go to Baghdad together. We have to settle these positions among ourselves.
As far as I know, you have been asked from inside and outside the country to become the president of the republic. Is this true?
We are Peshmerga and KDP cadres. We follow the decision made by President [Masoud] Barzani. This is discussed often. But this is not a decision I can take. We will do what the leadership thinks is good.
It is true the decision will be made by the KDP, but have you prepared yourself for the position?
We were Peshmerga. I was an active and effective minister in Baghdad. I was busy doing big things. The president asked in a telephone conversation that I had to visit Muqtada al-Sadr tomorrow to withdraw confidence from the prime minister. I do it. This is how we are.
The suspension of the Kurdistan Region’s presidential law brought the KDP and Gorran close to each other. Do you have anything else in common other than this?
The project was presented by Gorran and the KDP, but mainly by Gorran. This resolved part of the problem. The Kurdistan
If we hold the election on September 30, it will be the most important election for the Kurdistan Region
Will the Kurdistan parliamentary election be held on time?
We are determined on this and have told the PUK and other parties that this election should not be delayed because the Kurds will have a lot to lose otherwise.
There are suggestions the election may be delayed.
There are no such suggestions so far. Technical preparations continue to be made. We have made much preparation. The list of our candidates is nearly finished. We have finished our election manifesto. The commission has also done much preparation. The timing is good. We as the Kurds if we can hold the election on time, while there were many problems with Iraqi election, the world would appreciate the value of the Kurds more.
Will the election be held for sure?
It is 100 percent likely to be held. We will try to hold it on time.
Will the Kurdistan parliamentary election be held if the formation of the Iraqi government is delayed?
Some argue the holding of the election might lead to disagreements and complications while we are busy with the formation of the Iraqi government. I don’t support this position. I believe the formation of the Iraqi government will be delayed. If we hold the election on September 30, it will be the most important election for the Kurdistan Region.
Comments
Rudaw moderates all comments submitted on our website. We welcome comments which are relevant to the article and encourage further discussion about the issues that matter to you. We also welcome constructive criticism about Rudaw.
To be approved for publication, however, your comments must meet our community guidelines.
We will not tolerate the following: profanity, threats, personal attacks, vulgarity, abuse (such as sexism, racism, homophobia or xenophobia), or commercial or personal promotion.
Comments that do not meet our guidelines will be rejected. Comments are not edited – they are either approved or rejected.
Post a comment